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    Chris West
    Has anybody else had past data change in PBCS?
    Topic posted January 23, 2018 by Chris WestGreen Ribbon: 100+ Points, tagged PBCS 
    556 Views, 11 Comments
    Has anybody else had past data change in PBCS?
    Actausl from prior years appear to ahve changed in PBCS several timese in the last few eeks, appropos of no known action on our part

    We keep several years worth of actuals in our PBCS system so that they're available for budget managers to look at alongside the next year budget as they're developing it. These were uploaded a while ago and don't change (since they're actuals for closed years, going back to 2012). In January, we've had several incidents where these historical actual totals seem to have changed. We don't exactly when this occurring- we only discover it when somebody notices that one of the numbers in one of the reports looks a little odd. I have not been able to correlate this to anything we're doing in the system- a file import, aggregation, consolidation, etc. Which is not to say there couldn't be a correlation, difficult to track down since we can't pinpoint exactly when the changes are happening. We're able to restore the prior year actuals by clearing the year, re-importing the original data file, and then aggregating. Then, a week or two later, something will seem to be off again. I'm wondering if anyone else out there in PBCS-land (or even other Oracle products) has had a similar mystery? And if so, did you determine what was causing it in your case?


    Chris West

    Middlebury College 



    • Katrina Boyajian

      Hi, Chris -

      No good answer, but I do have a few questions to offer, in hopes they might spark some ideas:

      Do you ever terminate/retire dimension members?  If so, when you reload your historical data, are you reloading the associated historical metadata (dimensions) as well?  Just wondering if some data is being lost/orphaned due to changes on the metadata end. 

      Are all of your data and metadata updates manual, or have you built automated refreshes?  If the latter, are you keeping copies of the files used for the refreshes?

      If this is happening regularly, it might be worthwhile to run a set of whatever standard reports you've built for PBCS, just for your historical data, at a medium-high level of your hierarchy, on a regular basis (say, once a week).  Being able to trace whether it's the same type of data, segment of your chart, and/or section of your organizational structure, that's involved each time, might help narrow down the issue.  If you are able to isolate a particular subsection of the data this way, you could then run reports at a lower and lower level each time, and potentially figure out the actual record(s) involved (or at least what they have in common).

      Will be interested to hear if you're able to identify the root cause of what you're experiencing, as obviously data integrity is a critical concern for us all.



      Katrina Boyajian

      University System of NH

      • Chris West


        Thanks for your thoughts! So far, we never retire dimension members in the sense of completely eliminating one, though we might as we phase out old years worth of data at some point. We do, from time time, change the metadata structure, though, as in having a fund that rolled up under one grouping now roll up under another instead, and so on. I've been unable to establish a direct link between the changes and an event of that kind. But we're now doing what you suggest- we have a set data extract as of a point in time, and are regularly running reports to see if anything changes from it. So hopefully, if there is a future change, we can pinpoint a time window it's happened in, and see if any processes affecting specific members could play a part. Although, most hopefully, there aren't any future data issues!


    • Chad Ness


      A few months ago I had the same thing happen to me.  PBCS dropped all data associated with five products.  Here is the SR detail and Oracle’s response:


      SR Background Information

      I reorganized the product dimension.  This update includes 30 total updates in the following categories:

       Add Level0: 5

       Move Level0: 15

       Sort Level0: 2

       Rename Upper Member: 6

       Delete Upper Level Member: 2 (after removing level0 members)

       Total Changes: 30

      Note: There are NO renames or deletes of level0 members. Only moves and sorts.

      Issue: The last 5 level0 moves caused all data to be dropped.


      Per Oracle Support:  On premises Hyperion Planning and Oracle PBCS database refreshes operate differently.  You must separate move, rename, and delete operations into an individual operation and ensure to run database refresh after each step.  

      You cannot rename upper level parents and move level 0 members as part of the same database refresh.

      There is an enhancement request (Enh 26887045 - ABILITY TO COMBINE MULTIPLE TYPES OF METADATA CHANGES INTO ONE TRANSACTION) for this, but no timeframe on when it will be released.




      Oracles response so some of my questions:

      Good Morning Chad,

      Here are the responses inline to the additional questions you raised yesterday:

      Is it a bug or just PBCS works differently? – PBCS works differently since the underling design is different and hence cannot be compared directly with on-premise.

      Is the metadata update order of operation documented in the admin guide? How do I need to break up updates? – It is not documented but general guideline is to split move, rename and delete operations into an individual operation and ensure to run database refresh after each step.

      Does this impact metadata loads? – metadata loads are always merge, so should not impact but again recommended to run database refresh after load to ensure essbase and planning are in sync

      Does this impact when I load metadata via LCM? – metadata load via LCM is identical to metadata load from Planning web UI, so should not impact


      • Chris West

        Thanks Chad!

        I have wondered if it might be related to a metadata structure change, as we do have them from time to time. So far I haven't been able to pinpoint a narrow enough time window for when the data changes are happening to be able to tie them to a specific system activity. But this gives me some good tips on kinds of things to be on the lookout for,


        • Chad Ness


          After finding out that PBCS metadata changes have to be done differently than Hyperion Planning, I now do a Smartview query at level 0 before I make the change for the dimension I am changing.  Then after I copy the query to a new tab and refresh.  I compare the before and after and that will identify if it dropped any data.

          When it drops the data due to metadata changes it drops all levels of data coded to a specific member.  In my case it was product.  For example, if the data coded to product 00001 was dropped, it dropped the data a level0, level1, level2, etc coded to 00001.  It drops the data all the way up the rollup.

          I haven't had any other instances of lost data except when doing metadata changes since we went live in the summer of 2016.   



    • Sean McGinn

      Our teams have been experiencing issues with PBCS clearing data (unrelated to business rules) at random. We have several instances of this occurring in the last couple of days. Additionally, it seems after each Oracle upgrade the order of our business rules on the forms changes – which impacts the accuracies of our calculations since the data needs to be calculated in a specific order.  

      • Chris West

        Thanks Sean! Have you been in touch with oracle about it, and did they have any thoughts on what might be happening?

    • Sidharda Chava

      I definitely feel this is due to business rules. If you have any business rules make sure there is a prompt (RTP) for scenario in each rule in case scenario is not hard coded. Now in the limits of Scenario prompt eliminate Actual member. Though through forms modifying actual data can be seen as obvious. however do below things. Do not set Start year and end year for Actual Scenario member.

    • Supriya Nutulapati


      We had the same issue of data dropping with meta data changes. We raised SR with oracle and as Chad mentioned it is based on the order in which we do different Metadata changes.

      We replicated the issue in test and solved it by doing intermediate db refresh between rename,add and delete Metadata changes.We are also taking level 0 data before and after changes to compare and test data.And always taking a before Application Snapshot for recovery if we had any data dropping issue.